Research Symposium, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020
Overview
This event will consider the relationship between intellectual property and higher education in the age of the public health crisis over the coronavirus COVID-19. It will bring together scholars, experts, and practitioners in law, business, and education, and examine this topic from a range of disciplinary perspectives.
Universities and educational institutions will play a key role in our local, national, and global response to the public health crisis of the coronavirus COVID-19. Professor John Shine — the President of the Australian Academy of Science — has stressed: ‘As a repository of knowledge, networks, infrastructure and smart, agile people, university science has the capacity to address global challenges.’ Shine suggests: ‘People trained by university science and working within the research sector are the people whose expertise will deliver on this global challenge.’ He has concluded: ‘It’s the capacity to innovate in our university science that will bring us through this crisis.’
This symposium will consider the role of universities and educational institutions as creators, intermediaries, and users of copyright work. It will also examine how universities rely upon trade mark law, branding, marketing, and Internet Domain Names. This symposium will explore the role of universities in respect of research, development and deployment of patented inventions in key fields — including agriculture, biotechnology, medicine, and clean technologies. This event will also consider the tension between the open access culture of universities, and the push towards the protection of trade secrets and confidential information. It will look at recent concerns about the cyber-hacking of universities, educational establishments, and research institutions.
This symposium will also provide an Australian launch of Professor Jacob Rooksby’s Research Handbook on Intellectual Property and Technology Transfer (Edward Elgar, 2020) — which includes a contribution from a QUT researcher on intellectual property, 3D printing, and higher education.
1. Copyright Law and Education
10:00–10:20
The People’s Vaccine: Intellectual Property, Access to Medicines, and the Coronavirus COVID-19
Professor Matthew Rimmer
Abstract
This presentation provides an overview of intellectual property and access to medicines in the age of COVID-19. There have also been worries that superpowers such as the United States, Russia and China will engage in vaccine nationalism — rather than participate in co-operative multilateralism. The Trump administration has taken an America First position — and has sought to develop Operation Warpspeed to encourage the development of a vaccine for its local population. Likewise, there has been concerns about pharmaceutical drug companies, biotechnology developers, and the medical diagnostics industry engaging in profiteering in respect of COVID-19 technologies. Winnie Byanyima from UNAIDS and former New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark have argued that there is a need for a People’s Vaccine — rather than a patent monopoly held by a pharmaceutical drug company. The World Health Organization has established the ACT Accelerator in order to boost research, development, and deployment of COVID-19 technologies — including vaccines, diagnostics, and treatments. Costa Rica proposed a Coronavirus Technology Access Pool — which has been taken up by the World Health Organization. The Medicines Patent Pool has expanded its jurisdiction to include the sharing of intellectual property related to the coronavirus. Stanford University has helped establish a framework for public licensing in respect of COVID-19 technologies. Universities Allied for Essential Medicines has called upon public institutions to ‘free the vaccine’. A number of companies and institutions have taken the Open COVID 19 pledge not to bring intellectual property action against researchers working on the coronavirus. The defence of experimental use under patent law will be important — as will the right to repair under designs law. A range of national governments have also indicated that they will deploy compulsory licensing and crown use provisions if access to COVID-19 technologies are blocked, or companies engage in profiteering. There has also been a larger discussion about the need for open science to encourage a collective approach to tackling the public health pandemic of the coronavirus.
Biography
Dr Matthew Rimmer is a Professor in Intellectual Property and Innovation Law at the Faculty of Law, at the Queensland University of Technology (QUT). He has published widely on copyright law and information technology, patent law and biotechnology, access to medicines, plain packaging of tobacco products, intellectual property and climate change, Indigenous Intellectual Property, and intellectual property and trade. He is undertaking research on intellectual property and 3D printing; the regulation of robotics and artificial intelligence; and intellectual property and public health (particularly looking at the coronavirus COVID-19). His work is archived at QUT ePrints, SSRN Abstracts, Bepress Selected Works, and Open Science Framework.
10:20–10:40
The Internet Archive and the National Emergency Library: Copyright Law and the Coronavirus COVID-19
Professor Matthew Rimmer
Abstract
The Internet Archive established the National Emergency Library to provide for access to knowledge for those who were unable to access their usual libraries, schools, and educational institutions. In response, four large publishers have brought a copyright lawsuit against the Internet Archive, alleging both direct copyright infringement, as well as secondary copyright infringement. The Author’s Guild has supported this action. Fearful of litigation, the Internet Archive has decided to close the National Emergency Library earlier than it anticipated. The litigation raises a range of issues in respect of copyright infringement, the defence of fair use, library exceptions, digital lending, and intermediary liability. The dispute raises novel questions about the operation of copyright flexibilities during public health emergencies. It is argued that there needs to better international mechanisms under copyright law to enable access to knowledge in a public health crisis.
Biography
Dr Matthew Rimmer is a Professor in Intellectual Property and Innovation Law at the Faculty of Law, at the Queensland University of Technology (QUT). He has published widely on copyright law and information technology, patent law and biotechnology, access to medicines, plain packaging of tobacco products, intellectual property and climate change, Indigenous Intellectual Property, and intellectual property and trade. He is undertaking research on intellectual property and 3D printing; the regulation of robotics and artificial intelligence; and intellectual property and public health (particularly looking at the coronavirus COVID-19). His work is archived at QUT ePrints, SSRN Abstracts, Bepress Selected Works, and Open Science Framework.
10:40–11:00
Copyright Law in South America: Digital Exclusions, Libraries and Cultural Venues. Unleashing New Opportunities and Experiences
Samuel de Souza Teixeira Lobão
Abstract
Copyright limitations and exceptions have been frequently discussed as an important avenue to promote access to knowledge and thus human and social development. One popular way to balance the public and rights-holders’ interest was the adoption of specific exceptions and limitations concerning libraries, museums, and cultural venues. As many of the countries following TRIPs homogenization, countries in Latin America have implemented superficial exceptions and limitations which quickly became outdated with the expansion of digital technologies. With recent research showing that digital limitations are mostly absent from the great part of the region, the talk will use factual examples of how the lack of a proper legislative framework for copyright exceptions and limitations in this sense fail to cater the needs of education and access to knowledge in a digital world, limiting the implementation of new technologies and cultural experiences.
Biography
Samuel Lobao, Attorney in Law (Brazil), L.L.B (Hons) by PUC-MG (Brazil), L.L.M in Intellectual Property (World Intellectual Property Organization — QUT), and M.Phil Candidate in Intellectual Property and Innovation (QUT). While being a complete geek for all kind of technology, Mr Samuel Lobao has a passion for social sciences and law studies. Acknowledging the difficulty of the task, he dedicates his time to understand the constant transformative impacts caused by technological advances in areas such as Cultural Heritage, Intellectual Property, Commerce and Innovation Law. His current work at QUT seeks to understand how 3D-Printing technologies could have a protagonist role in the future of sustainable development.
2 Trademark Law and Education
11:00–11:20
Navigating Private Rights and the Public Good: Trademark Law and Education
Angela Dahlke
Abstract
Universities and their engagement with intellectual property and associated legal rights has changed both qualitatively and quantitatively, shaped and catalysed by a myriad of forces and factors, including external and institutional. This talk provides an exploratory analysis, description, and deliberation on issues such as: the role, identity, and marketing of universities and their brands in changing contexts; and the trade-offs between, or balancing of, the interaction of public and private rights, interests, and benefits, relating to trade marks. This presentation provides a trans-disciplinary exploration of Universities’ evolving engagement and impact with marketing, branding, and trade mark rights.
Biography
Angela Dahlke offers a unique trans-disciplinary view of trade marks, branding, and marketing, with her multi-disciplinary qualifications, in law, science, and business, and cross-sector professional and entrepreneurial experience, working in/with private practice, universities, start-ups, and consulting to government, in multiple professional roles along with concurrent innovation and social entrepreneurship side-pursuits. She is a registered patent and trade marks attorney (AU, NZ), who’s worked at leading intellectual property firms, managing global IP portfolios, and been an advocate in high profile and precedent cases relating to trade marks. She has served on various committees, including the Intellectual Property Society of Australia and New Zealand (IPONZ). Angela has engaged in and published research in the biological and social sciences, including as a co-founder of an award-winning innovative social enterprise and STEM education program, harnessing citizen science for the discovery and protection of biodiversity and publication of novel genetic codes for the public good. Within the university sector, Angela has enjoyed multiple professional roles, including as a manager of an entrepreneurship hub, lecturer in business including entrepreneurship, start-up mentor, marketer and social media manager, and in stakeholder engagement and commercialisation roles, most recently in her present role at the Australian Research Council Centre of Excellence for Mathematical and Statistical Frontiers. She’s been active in the innovation community, including as an innovation facilitator and mentor, and health innovation consultant, bringing together diverse stakeholders to solve problems, innovate solutions, and realise an impact.
3. Patent Law and Education
11:30–11:50
University Industry Collaboration and the Effect of Government Funding
Annita Nugent
Abstract
With innovation as a third mission of universities, governments around the world have competitive funding schemes to support university industry collaboration. Little is known whether these schemes are more successful than traditional competitive funding programs to achieve commercially valuable research outputs. We explore whether this is the case by comparing two Australian funding programs that share the processes of how funds are awarded — one with a requirement of U-I collaboration, one traditional, not requiring collaboration. We use related patenting activity as our measure of commercially valuable research outputs. We find targeted grants lead to more patent activity by inventors that are awarded such grants, compared to those being awarded non-targeted grants. Analysing the dynamics, we find the effect is rather short lift. For technica Universities and Australia‘s biggest universities (Go8), we find that patent activity is maximised if universities achieve a get awarded a mix of both types of funding.
Biography
Annita Nugent, is a PhD candidate in the Centre for Behavioural Economics, Society and Technology at the Queensland University of Technology. With a focus on policy, her research explores the dynamic of university-industry collaboration and how it is influenced by government funding. Annita’s interest in this topic stems from over 25 years-experience in the protection, translation and commercialisation of research findings. Acquiring a foundation in intellectual property as a patent examiner with IP Australia, specialising in life science, she registered as a patent attorney in 2000. Before transitioning to the university environment in 2005 as Manager, Innovation and Commercial Development (Queensland Brain Institute) at UniQuest, she gained experience in private practice, industry start-ups and government research organisations. Spending over a decade at The University of Queensland, Annita has facilitated the establishment and maintenance of many and varied research collaborations and initiatives, including commercial projects with industry, joint international laboratories, and multi-disciplinary research Centres, sourcing funding from industry, state, federal and philanthropic sources. Most recently Annita has overseen the development of the ARC Special Research Initiative in the Science of Learning. As Chief Operating Officer of the Centre she built a research translation team, purposed with ensuring the Centre’s industry partners and end-user stakeholders (schools and State Departments of Education) benefitted from its research outcomes, which she subsequently went on to lead. Applying an econometrics approach to understand the impact of government funding on university-industry collaboration her study mirrors, and is shaped by, her experience.
11:50–12:10
Law, Linguistics and Economic Approaches to Measuring the Scope of Patents
Brendan Nugent (Queensland University of Technology), Dr Nancy Kong (Queensland University of Technology), and Professor Uwe Dulleck (Queensland University of Technology)
Abstract
Economists often use patent counts to evaluate trends in innovation. Such studies generally recognise that the extent of exclusivity granted by a patent is determined by the claims granted. However, measurements that economists currently use to judge patent scope do not always find a rational basis in patent law or practice. We have identified the elements of a patent claim that contribute to patent scope and developed measures that find their basis in legal analysis of claims. We propose to introduce these measures into linguistic models to provide a measure of patent scope with a strong grounding in patent law and practice.
Biography
Brendan Nugent is an MPhil candidate in the Graduate School of Business at the Queensland University of Technology. He is an Australian patent and trade marks attorney with over 30 years’ experience. With qualifications in chemistry and biotechnology, Brendan has prepared and prosecuted patent applications for clients in the Government and university sectors as well as pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies. His interest in biotechnology start-ups led him to become an active angel investor for a time, but he now splits his time between consulting to a small Brisbane-based patent attorney firm and research into the economics of the patent system that he is undertaking at Queensland University of Technology.
12:10–12:30
Computational Linguistic Examination of Readability and Disclosure Among University and Firm Patents
Dr Nancy Kong (Queensland University of Technology), Professor Uwe Dulleck (Queensland University of Technology), Professor Adam B Jaffe (Brandeis), Shupeng Sun (Queensland University of Technology), and Sowmya Vajjala (National Research Council Canada)
Abstract
Encouraging inventors to disclose their new inventions is one of the most important economic justifications of the patent system. Yet, technical information contained in patent applications is often inadequate and unclear. We are the first to examine the patent disclosure using computational linguistic analysis. By comparing the readability of patents applied by universities and firms in the industry of nanotechnology, battery and photoelectric from 2000 to 2019 in the U.S., we show that university patents are significantly easier to comprehend, requiring 1.4 years less education than firm patents. The difference of disclosure level between patent documents could imply that applicants of different entities may strategically choose their disclosure levels for their patent applications.
Biography
Dr. Nancy Kong is a research fellow at the Centre for Behavioural Economics, Society and Technology, QUT. She completed her PhD in economics in 2017 at Dalhousie University, Canada. She has a wide range of research interests in health economics, labour economics, and intellectual property using applied econometric methods. Her current project examines the disclosure incentives of patent applications using computational linguistic analysis and machine learning techniques.
12:30–12:50
Harnessing the Potential of 3D Printing to Develop Emergency Equipment in Response to COVID-19
Dr Muhammad Zaheer Abbas
Abstract
COVID-19 has already caused far-reaching negative impacts not only on health but also on the social and economic well-being of the global population. 3D printing offers promise in relation to much needed health technologies associated with COVID-19. Additive manufacturing, which allows the rapid conversion of information from digital 3D models into physical objects, is uniquely well positioned to support the shortage of critical medical devices by enabling customization and printing of devices in a timely and cost-effective manner. This rapid prototyping technology can be used to scale up the manufacturing of hospital respiratory support apparatus, like ventilators, and to mitigate shortages of personal protective equipment like face shields, respirator hoods, and surgical masks. With a key focus on harnessing the potential of 3D printing in response to disruptions to the medical product supply chain in the pandemic context, this paper also discusses how patent exclusivities become a hurdle in using the full potential of 3D printing. This paper evaluates the effectiveness of compulsory licensing, a safeguard provided under intellectual property (IP) regime of the World Trade Organization, as a policy option to overcome IP barriers. This study is crucial because access to necessary health technologies in a pandemic context is a matter of life and death for millions of patients around the globe, especially for underprivileged patients in resource-constrained countries. This study will help policy makers at national and international levels by contributing to the debate over IP and scope of 3D printing in response to the global health crisis.
Biography
Dr. Muhammad Zaheer Abbas has recently completed PhD in Law at Queensland University of Technology (QUT) as a recipient of QUT Postgraduate Research Award (QUTPRA). He studied Law at International Islamic University, Islamabad (IIUI) and obtained BA General and LLB (Hons) with distinction in 2010. He also obtained LLM in International Law, with distinction, from the same university in 2012. He served as a Lecturer in Law at IIUI and has nearly 8 years of legal teaching and research experience. He also served as Associate Editor of ‘Islamabad Law Review’, a peer reviewed open access research journal of Faculty of Shariah & Law, IIUI. He has published 16 peer-reviewed research papers, mostly related to intellectual property protection and the public interest. His notable research publications include:
- ‘Treatment of the Novel COVID-19: Why Costa Rica’s Proposal for the Creation of a Global Pooling Mechanism Deserves Serious Consideration?’ (2020) Journal of Law and the Biosciences (Early view published online)
- ‘Plant Breeders’ Rights Act 2016: Prospects and Challenges for Pakistan as an Agricultural Country’ (2020) Journal of World Intellectual Property (Early view published online)
- ‘Evergreening of Pharmaceutical Patents: A Blithe Disregard for the Rationale of the Patent System’ (2019) 15(2) Journal of Generic Medicines: The Business Journal for the Generic Medicines Sector 53–60
- ‘Investor-State Dispute Settlement Mechanism and its Ramifications for Public Health: An Analysis’ (2018) 28(4) Australasian Dispute Resolution Journal 244–251
- ‘WTO Paragraph 6 System for Affordable Access to Medicines: Relief or Regulatory Ritualism’ (2018) 21(1–2) Journal of World Intellectual Property 32–51
- ‘Compulsory Licensing and Access to Medicines: TRIPS Amendment Allows Export to Least-Developed Countries’ (2017) 12(6) Journal of Intellectual Property Law & Practice 451–452
- ‘Rationale of Compulsory Licensing of Pharmaceutical Patents in the Light of Human Rights Perspective’ (2014) 19(1) Pakistan Perspectives 107–123
- ‘TRIPS Flexibilities: Implementation Gaps between Theory and Practice’ (2013) Issue 2013(1) Nordic Journal of Commercial Laws 1–25
In 2014, Dr. Abbas got an opportunity to attend the “Winter Institute” held at the College of William & Mary, Virginia, and Georgetown University, Washington D.C. In 2017, he had the honor to present his research at the University of Oxford, UK. In 2018, he attended the 15th WTO-WIPO Colloquium for Teachers of Intellectual Property held at Geneva, Switzerland. In the same year, he attended the “Fifth Global Congress on IP and the Public Interest” held at American University Washington College of Law, Washington D.C.
4. Open Access and Education
2:00–2:20
Negotiating the Production, Management and Ownership of Knowledge in the 21st Century University
Dr. Kylie Pappalardo
Abstract
Producing and disseminating knowledge is core university business. But research can be tied up in numerous ways, including disputes over who can access it, or who receives credit for or owns copyright-protected works such as journal articles, books, or databases. Poor management of knowledge ownership and dissemination can thwart research objectives: outcomes may not be useable; projects may be delayed or stopped; articles may not be published, or unnecessarily restricted to limited audiences. These problems can put a brake on scholarly advancement, engagement with non-scholarly audiences, and the real world impact of Australian university research.
Navigating knowledge ownership and dissemination is complex and fraught. Copyright law has rules about ownership and credit for research outputs, but copyright law is only a small part of the picture. A range of policies affect ownership and use of university research, including policies on authorship, intellectual property (IP), commercialisation, open access and open data, individual research performance assessment, data integrity and sharing, confidentiality, digital learning, and employment contracts. The rules are drafted by different people, with their own goals and agendas, and implemented within universities across departments and at different levels. Inevitably policies diverge or conflict. Researchers may struggle to reconcile the tension between demands for real-world impact and high quality publications, or may even be unaware of all the rules. This situation jeopardises university research and its ability to meet objectives for real world impact.
This presentation provides an overview of a new ARC-funded project that will investigate how intellectual property laws and licensing decision-making are currently operating in the Australian university context, and how academics and managers are making decisions and prioritising among competing imperatives, or avoiding doing so. The project will propose options for a more coherent, targeted and productive relationship between research and IP-related policies and laws, in light of the changing domestic and international legal context.
Biography:
Dr. Kylie Pappalardo is a Senior Lecturer in the QUT School of Law and a Chief Investigator with the QUT Digital Media Research Centre. Her research examines the operation of intellectual property law in a changing digital environment, and she has published widely on copyright and creativity, intermediary liability, and law and digital disruption.
2:20–2:40
How Open Access Suddenly Became the Norm
Professor Ginny Barbour
Abstract
When the COVID-19 pandemic took off, the usual models of publishing were thrown out of the window. Immediate free, open access became the norm, with non-peer reviewed publications (preprints) becoming the almost the majority form of publishing, publishers dropping article processing charges and journals opening up all their content. Will the new norm continue and what are the implications for the future of publishing?
Biography
Ginny Barbour is Director of the Australasian Open Access Strategy Group and is Co-Lead, Office for Scholarly Communications, Queensland University of Technology (QUT). In 2004, she was one of the three founding editors of PLOS Medicine. She has been involved over the years with many Open Access, publishing, and ethics initiatives including (DORA) the Cochrane Library Oversight Committee, and as a Plan S Ambassador. She writes for the Conversation She is on the NHMRC’s Research Quality Steering Committee.
Her ORCID profile is here http://orcid.org/0000-0002-2358-2440
2:40 -3:00
Open Educational Resources: Social Justice, Equity, and Inclusion in the Age of COVID-19
Stephanie Bradbury and Katya Henry
Abstract
QUT is committed to the creation and dissemination of knowledge for the benefit of society. This includes supporting the adoption, adaptation, and creation of Open Educational Resources (OERs) to widen access to education, and to improve both the cost-efficiency and quality of teaching and learning outcomes. OERs have a role to play in social justice, equity and inclusion. In this age of COVID-19 and the impact it has had on students, the case for OERs is even more compelling.
Biographies
Stephanie Bradbury is Manager, Scholarly Communications Services in the Office for Scholarly Communication, QUT Library.
Katya Henry is the University Copyright Officer in the Office for Scholarly Communication, QUT Library. She is also the Creative Commons Global Network Council Representative, Australia.
Book Launch
Research Handbook on Intellectual Property and Technology Transfer
Research Handbooks in Intellectual Property series
Edited by Jacob H. Rooksby, Dean and Professor of Law, Gonzaga University School of Law, Spokane, Washington, US
Publication Date: 2020 ISBN: 978 1 78811 662 6 Extent: c 512 pp
Written by leading experts from across the world, this Handbook expertly places intellectual property issues in technology transfer into their historical and political context whilst also exploring and framing the development of these intersecting domains for innovative universities in the present and the future.
Contents
Universities everywhere are increasingly being encouraged to translate their research findings into practical applications that will further the common good through technology transfer, a process in which intellectual property (IP) laws and systems play a central role. This Research Handbook skillfully places IP issues in technology transfer into their historical and political context whilst also exploring and framing the development of these intersecting domains for innovative universities in the present and the future.
Written by leading experts from across the world, this Research Handbook offers new insights into our understanding of this area and its practical implications, situating IP and technology transfer within larger dialogues concerning the future of the research university. It illuminates a complex ecosystem in which the stakes are high and best practices are nuanced. Not overlooked are the most timely and controversial topics in the field, including inter partes review proceedings, conflicts of interest, patent enforcement and the public good, 3D printing, and university treatment of data.
This Research Handbook will prove critical reading for scholars of both technology transfer and IP, as well as for practitioners working in these fields. Stakeholders such as university presidents and governing boards and members of higher education organizations will also find it insightful and useful.
References
Intellectual Property and Education in the Age of COVID-19, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020,YouTube playlist — https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXUvd1SCdiFUs8fKhC4N-uWKV6IxT_n54
1. Matthew Rimmer, ‘The People’s Vaccine: IP, Access to Medicines, and the Coronavirus COVID-19’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/va5pmrlg0VU
2. Matthew Rimmer, ‘The Internet Archive and the National Emergency Library: Copyright Law and the Coronavirus COVID-19’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/iS5PjoIimOU
3. Samuel de Souza Teixeira Lobão, ‘Copyright Law in South America: Digital Exclusions, Libraries and Cultural Venues. Unleashing New Opportunities and Experiences’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/wU42tspYfH8
4. Angela Dahlke, ‘Navigating Private Rights and the Public Good: Trademark Law and Education’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/r3f2ZgDPsvM
5. Annita Nugent, ‘University Industry Collaboration and the Effect of Government Funding’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/Xl14HHSXDEk
6. Brendan Nugent, ‘Law, Linguistics and Economic Approaches to Measuring the Scope of Patents’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/nPXVzQpINQE
7. Nancy Kong, ‘Computational Linguistic Examination of Readability and Disclosure Among University and Firm Patents’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/L2CP6QpSFHU
8. Muhammad Zaheer Abbas, ‘Harnessing the Potential of 3D Printing to Develop Emergency Equipment in Response to COVID-19’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/97p79zOJIVY
9. Kylie Pappalardo, ‘Negotiating the Production, Management and Ownership of Knowledge in the 21st Century University’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/GMERIFHrMk8
10. Ginny Barbour, ‘How Open Access Suddenly Became the Norm’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/_SueRnB0uCQ
11. Stephanie Bradbury and Katya Henry, ‘Open Educational Resources: Social Justice, Equity, and Inclusion in the Age of COVID-19’, QUT Faculty of Law, 29 July 2020, https://youtu.be/WnJgzj43d0Q